Vintage Revolution - Pedal Pro

[massi1234]

Grappig, dat is dus precies het idee dat ik met mijn nieuwe pedalboard heb, ik wil een volumepedaal, fuzz, filter, octaver, chorus/vibrato, phaser, tremolo, distortion, delay, boost, looper en misschien nog een bitcrusher combineren om daarmee bijna synth achtige sounds te maken.
Mijn vraag is, heb je ook echt een analoge synth / analoge synth pad in de PedalPro gebouwd? (ik ben zeer benieuwd hoe dat dan klinkt!)

@Tristan
PedalPro contains all the analogue module to make the basic synth. 1x VCA, 2x VCF and all the rest.
You can not make synth sound if you can not manipulate and process the envelope detector.
From the envelope you can retrieve when the note starts and stops. Then you can process it.
Further you need to controll the relative phase of the waveform.
So the PedalPro has the modules and the computantional power to do so.

Since the phase controll is already implemented some synth sound can be already programmed.
check SynthFlTrem in http://www.vintage-revolution.com/pr...ples/specials/

[Tristan]

Wat ik weet van een synth is dat je naast de oscillator (in dit geval dan de gitaar of gitaar + octaver), een VCA, VCF en ADSR nodig hebt, en dan natuurlijk nog een LFO voor de modulatie effecten, maar dat kan je opvangen door verschillende modulatie effecten zoals phaser en chorus te gebruiken, voor choppy (VCA) effecten gebruik je dan een (square wave) tremolo en misschien nog een fuzz of distortion om het geluid meer naar een square wave te trekken.
De sample waar je naar verwijst klinkt voor mij niet naar een synth, misschien dat het met distortion wel vetter en extremer klinkt.
De Subdecay Prometheus DLX doet ook dat soort dingen, alleen klinkt die veel dieper heb ik het idee:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGqYc3yL9GY

[massi1234]

Wat ik weet van een synth is dat je naast de oscillator (in dit geval dan de gitaar of gitaar + octaver), een VCA, VCF en ADSR nodig hebt, en dan natuurlijk nog een LFO voor de modulatie effecten, maar dat kan je opvangen door verschillende modulatie effecten zoals phaser en chorus te gebruiken, voor choppy (VCA) effecten gebruik je dan een (square wave) tremolo en misschien nog een fuzz of distortion om het geluid meer naar een square wave te trekken.
De sample waar je naar verwijst klinkt voor mij niet naar een synth, misschien dat het met distortion wel vetter en extremer klinkt.
De Subdecay Prometheus DLX doet ook dat soort dingen, alleen klinkt die veel dieper heb ik het idee:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGqYc3yL9GY

Some interesting sounds from this pedal. Nice demo. Although no attack change.
To me sound like a nice filter more then a Synth sound.

On board of the PedalPro we have a similar filter call F2. Can be used as low pass or band pass.
The rest I would say sound similar also digitally controlled analogue filter (VCF). The biggest difference for the moment is the TapTempo. I am working on this

Any way with PedalPro you can do sounds even more bizarre since we have two filter on board with frequency range, resonance, type, envelope and routing all programmable.

And you can combine in stereo mode F1->Left , F2->Right
check the sound sample name EnvFilt- from the CD of Adedeij with acoustic guitar.
http://www.vintage-revolution.com/pr...ples/cdtracks/

[peter_heijnen]

Massi, wat is de reden dat je geen input op de front hebt?

[massi1234]

Massi, wat is de reden dat je geen input op de front hebt?

Very good question. In fact the first prototype was with the jack in front
The straight answare is to avoid digital coupling to the guitar signal.

Many people who are used to digital processor or digitally controlled devices experience a little noise while playing and simultaneusly changing a parameter on the display.
Some people call this noise glitch, some zipper noise. I call it cross coupling between the digital and analog.

The real problem is the output impedance of your guitar pickup. Since the coils (single/double) have the impedance much above 1K Ohms, noise (hum, sparkle,....) and other sources (Eg. digital switching noise from data communication in the effect or in the MIDI in) can add on the guitar signal easily.

Since one the key feature of the PedalPro is to assign any analogue parameter to an expression pedal, it would be a petty if you would hear a little noise while you are changing the expression.

Inside the PedalPro, the analog section is fully shielded by an internal metal wall. This feature provide isolation beween digital and analog above 130dB. Therefore not audible
So the input and output jacks are inside the analog section as well as the rest of the audio circuits.

In this picture the top board have been removed so to show the input and ouput connections.


Of course all the sensitive points where noise can get in, need to be properly designed/taken-care including shielded cable (ADES), linear power supply for both Pedalino and Power supply.


We do leave in electromagnetically polluted world (WI-FI,RF....) and unfortunately the guitar is not the best instrument to guarantee proper immunity.

[Tristan]

Ik bedoelde dat de Subdecay op de clip dieper klinkt dan de PedalPro op de clips die je als voorbeeld geeft.
Natuurlijk heeft hij geen attack change, het is inderdaad een filter, maar dat is wel te omzeilen door swells te maken met een volumepedaal en/of een Ebow te gebruiken.

Some interesting sounds from this pedal. Nice demo. Although no attack change.
To me sound like a nice filter more then a Synth sound.

On board of the PedalPro we have a similar filter call F2. Can be used as low pass or band pass.
The rest I would say sound similar also digitally controlled analogue filter (VCF). The biggest difference for the moment is the TapTempo. I am working on this

Any way with PedalPro you can do sounds even more bizarre since we have two filter on board with frequency range, resonance, type, envelope and routing all programmable.

And you can combine in stereo mode F1->Left , F2->Right
check the sound sample name EnvFilt- from the CD of Adedeij with acoustic guitar.
http://www.vintage-revolution.com/pr...ples/cdtracks/

[massi1234]

Hi everybody,
for those interested the first review is today available on paper version on the Dutch magazine
http://www.gitarist.nl/nieuws/newsItem.php?n01ID=10614

[peter_heijnen]

Since one the key feature of the PedalPro is to assign any analogue parameter to an expression pedal, it would be a petty if you would hear a little noise while you are changing the expression.

Ok, sounds like a very good reason to put the input at the rear.

On the other hand, i cant recall to have ever consciously heard what you describe above while using an expression pedal, but maybe my eyes will be opened at Theo's meeting next week.

[massi1234]

Hi Peter I'll try to provide as many information I can in the demo next week.

Regarding the zipper noise caused by an expression pedal check out this:
http://wiki.fractalaudio.com/axefx2/...:_zipper_noise

Apparently they knew about this problem and their way around is to average. This is an improvement from the noise point of view, but leads to high latency (eg. 10ms).
I have personally experienced, that a good real time control should have latency <1ms. Only with very low latency you can tranform an expression pedal in a good wah pedal


Other users experiencing zipper noise in combination with the expression pedal.
http://www.loopers-delight.com/LDarc.../msg00932.html


In conclusion to avoid digital switching coupling in to your analogue signal it is necessary to take precautionary measures so that you do not have to deal with the zipper/digital noise with further processing.

I strongly believe that is better to avoid noise rather than filter it out.
Unfortunatelly avoiding noise is much more expensive .....

[massi1234]

Hi everybody,
we have completed a small functional video showing how to connect and control external effects with the PedalPro system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM2RF...=youtu.be&hd=1

As you will see the Boss pedal is in the pre-loop operating at instrument level while the Eventide is operating +4dBu signal level via the post-loop. In the Post loop the PedalPro can be set to operate either at instrument level or at the +4dBu signal level.
The post loop of the PedalPro has to programmable preamps that can be set and saved at the preset level.
The stereo returns from the Eventide are mixed with the stereo analogue signal using an internal stereo mixer which can be programmed as well at the preset level.

Futher the Pedalino is controlling via MIDICC and programm change the eventide

If you want to have more infos about this topic here is the link:
http://www.vintage-revolution.com/pr...tercontroller/