Pedalino Virtual Board design

[massi1234]

Dear forums members,
please post here your ideas and suggestion regarding the virtual board software for the Pedalino.

Lets first give you the definition of the VirtualBoard.
VirtualBoard#: The VB trasnforms the pads of the pedalino in to a switch for bypassing/activate each or a group of effects.

Basic physical information:

................Control Pad..........Pad (-).......................Pad (Load).................Pad (+)
Level 1.......Bypass................Effect/s bypass...........Effect/s bypass...........Effect/s bypass
Level 2.......Exit VB................none.........................non e..........................none
Level 3.......MUTE/Tuner.........none/Effect bypass......none/Effect bypass.......none/Effect bypass

As you see the control pad always operate a 3 levels.
The other pads can be set to work either like normal switches or like two pressure level siwtches according to user preference.

Virtual Boards names and preset in the PedalPro:
Each preset can be saved and associate to a different virtual board. The link between the VB and preset is saved at the preset level in the PedalPro.
Just an example:

Preset VB
DumbleDrv Rock
DumbleDrv Fusion
PlexiDrv Rock

Display and information on the Pedalino.
The display of the Pedalino has two wide lines of 16 chars visibile from stand position.
The ideas is two show the effects chain according to VB definition:

VB=Rock
Cp-FXX-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-Tr-Mo-Dly-Ex-Vo

Cp=compressor
FXX can be Fi1 (filter 1), Fi2 (filter 2), F12 (filter 1+2)
Ex=Pre-loop
Bo=Boost
Dis=Distortion
Tr=Tremolo
Mo can be Ph (Phaser) or Ch (Chorus) or Fg (Flanger)
Dly=Delay
Ex=Post loop
Vo= Volume control

Example:
Lets assume that PAD1(-) activates according to user preference Fi1; Pad2 activates simultaneuosly Boost and Preloop; Pad3(+) activates Dly
The original preset uses Compression, Distortion, Volume , DLY and Ex post loob reverb.
When you enter the VB the Display will show the effect in their chain sequence order
Cp----------Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

When Pad1 is pressed:
Cp-Fi1-------Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

When Pad2 is pressed:
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

When Pad3 is pressed:
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
----------Ex-Vo

So the effects or group of effects which are linked to the pads can be bypassed or activated.
For example if your noise gate is on, using the Rock VB it is not possible either to deactivate it or to visualize it in the Pedalino's display.

This is the basic idea.

@ Peter I love your idea. So that the Expression pedal can be used more efficiently. I will study how to implement it. Keep thinking :)

[peter_heijnen]

@ Peter I love your idea. So that the Expression pedal can be used more efficiently. I will study how to implement it. Keep thinking :)
Thx max.

I've been thinking about how to use the ex-pedal in order to flip active/passive mode: if it can be done that '100% full pedal position' flips the PP mode from wether active to passive or the other way around, then a simple dummy switch mounted on the ex-pedal will do the perfect job. You'll instantly know when you have reached 100% full pedal position and flipped mode 'because you just felt the click of the switch'. No click = no 100% = no flip, just like any other wah. :)

[obiwanjacobi]

Thx max.

I've been thinking about how to use the ex-pedal in order to flip active/passive mode: if it can be done that '100% full pedal position' flips the PP mode from wether active to passive or the other way around, then a simple dummy switch mounted on the ex-pedal will do the perfect job. You'll instantly know when you have reached 100% full pedal position and flipped mode 'because you just felt the click of the switch'. No click = no 100% = no flip, just like any other wah. :)

NOOOO! ;-)

I would advice against using the 100% position of an expression pedal to switch anything (modes or other).

You need an expression pedal with an extra switch - that only switches when you put a lot of weight on it- in order to switch modes. I have a Boss ME-25 and it has exactly that and it works great. Falls in line with the pressure sensitive schema of the pedalino.. ;-)

[obiwanjacobi]

Because the PedalPro setup does not accept midi in and is therefor the root of the system, I think it is important that the user can program extra midi commands to be send when selecting a patch or changing effects real time.

For complex setups it might even be necessary to allow midi commands to be sent when selecting a patch as well as sending a different group of midi commands when de-selecting a patch or effect(group). I've read the Roland FC-300 has something similar and it sounds really powerful.

Not sure if this falls under the virtual board category .... ?

[peter_heijnen]

Ok, just found out that my little idea -wah/vol overrule- wont work. No matter whether you use physical switch or 100% pedal position, either way you will need to go to 100% to flip modes. Wich means: if you are going to switch for wah/vol, the currently programmed parameter will first go up to 100% before you can flip to the other mode... Bummer.

Ok, second best then: wah/vol mode.

Give user choice between 'assigned parameter mode' or 'wah/vol mode'.

-In assigned parameter mode you can control the assigned parameter, apparently. :)
-In wah/vol mode you control either wah or vol. The function wah/vol flips when pedal position is 100%. Sorry Marc. ;)

In assigned parameter mode you might consider the option of a second assigned parameter, enabled bij flipping thru pedal position 100%.

If parameter/volwah mode can be available in patch menu: fantastic! If in global menu only: still great for me!

[peter_heijnen]

You need an expression pedal with an extra switch - that only switches when you put a lot of weight on it- in order to switch modes.
As said earlier, any dummy switch will do that job. ;)

[massi1234]

What about using the Third pressure level to commute between parameter expression change ?
Using two pressure levels (first and third) is very easy.
So the first level is used to bypass/activate the effect or group of effects, while the third level can work like this:
Pad1= Expression pedal as defined by the Ades config. according to the preset definition
Pad2= Wah
Pad3= Volume

So lets say you enter your VB from preset XXX and your original exp. parameter is GAIN of the boost
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

If you press the Pad2 your display will show
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

If you press the Pad3 your display will show
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

So using the underline char I can give an indication of the expression pedal assignment.

[peter_heijnen]

05:03 ..... Goodmorning Max, do you make sure you get enough sleep? ;)

Your idea makes me think of line6 m9. You know m9 and how it's switching works?

http://line6.com/m9/photos/01.jpg

M9 has three vertical rows (1/2/3) of two (a/b/) effects. Only one effect per row at a time is possible.

Works pretty good actually, with one foot move you can either:
-activate effect from 'row bypass'
-switch to the other effect within that row
-bypass the row.

If you consider the three pressure levels of each pedalino pad as a vertical row.
-Level 1/2 could manage effects on/of .
-Level3 could manage parameter/vol/wah assign to ex-pedal in the way you suggest.

That could work nice.

However: i TOTALLY wouldnt mind using the ex-pedal in VB for wah/vol exclusively. ;)
-I owned two m9's but didnt like the need to step on a switch first before being able to use the wah at all.
-If you dedicate the ex-pedal to wah/vol only, you 'free' all 3rd pressure levels for other stuff like for instance gain boost, delay level boost, vol boost, you name it....

-For me as pop/rock/session player: 9 instantly accessible fx switches + wah/vol (without unnecesary extra switching) would be MUCH more interesting than any live parameter control.
-For me as jazz player: i can turn VB off. ;)

EDIT: one of the strong poinst of m9 that i like is the limitation of 1 effect only at a time each row. It prohibits tapdancing within each row by design.

If pressure level1/2 on pedalino would work that same way -thus are limited to 1 effect at a time-, but you also could use level3 as 'extra and free usable' cherry on top, you get best of both worlds i think.

I like keeping stuff as simple as possible, especialy the good stuff! :)

[obiwanjacobi]

What about using the Third pressure level to commute between parameter expression change ?
Using two pressure levels (first and third) is very easy.
So the first level is used to bypass/activate the effect or group of effects, while the third level can work like this:
Pad1= Expression pedal as defined by the Ades config. according to the preset definition
Pad2= Wah
Pad3= Volume

So lets say you enter your VB from preset XXX and your original exp. parameter is GAIN of the boost
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

If you press the Pad2 your display will show
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

If you press the Pad3 your display will show
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

So using the underline char I can give an indication of the expression pedal assignment.

How would Pad2 function if Fi1 is not active in the preset?

I also have a question on how to support a combination of patch selection (mode) and effect selection (mode).
Some other boards allow you to support PG (or equivalent :-) ) and within that patch switch individual effects on/off with CC.
Is that something that would fit in the VB mindset?

[tnijland]

Great idea to start this topic!

I tend to agree with Peter that a combined volume/wah pedal is almost mandatory. However, i also like your idea using a pad for it.

Personally, i would divide the Pedalino footcontroller in two parts:

Pedal function selection pad: I would reserve one pressure pad as a global function to select the pedal function: pressure level 1=volume, level2=wah and level 3=parameter as programmed. These functions should be always present for every preset. As an advanced option you could let the user choose per preset whether he wants the pedal function select pad or prefers it as an additional effect on/off button.

Effect on/off pads: I then would use the remaining three pads with dual-pressure level for effect on/off toggle functions and enable the user to program three effects to switch on/off. The display can still show the preset name on the top row and show the switchable effects on the bottom row. As an advanced option, you could use the 2nd pressure level to select 3 other effects to switch (which maximizes the number of programmable effects to 6).


What about using the Third pressure level to commute between parameter expression change ?
Using two pressure levels (first and third) is very easy.
So the first level is used to bypass/activate the effect or group of effects, while the third level can work like this:
Pad1= Expression pedal as defined by the Ades config. according to the preset definition
Pad2= Wah
Pad3= Volume

So lets say you enter your VB from preset XXX and your original exp. parameter is GAIN of the boost
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

If you press the Pad2 your display will show
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

If you press the Pad3 your display will show
Cp-Fi1-Ex-Bo-Dis-
-------Dly-Ex-Vo

So using the underline char I can give an indication of the expression pedal assignment.

[massi1234]

Thanks to all of you for the contribution.
I am taking time to allow most of your request to be part of the controller.
Will see soon what I can implement and what can not be done.

Meanwhile since I am completing the TapTempo,
I would like to see your opinion on this feature.

This my basic ideas:
Tap_Tempo is set by averaging 4/4 Down/Up expression pedal.
When the TapTempo is within the range 110 Bpm to 330 Bpm the Tempo Led flashes and all the active modulators (Filters, Tremolo, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser) and Delay are synchronized with the TapTempo.

How do I activate the TapTempo measurement if the expression is used for wah/vol or any analogue parameter?

Option 1) When you enter the bypass mode via the control pad the expression pedal can be used to set the tap tempo

Option 2) By tapping extremely fast on you expression pedal you can enter the Tap Tempo measurement.

Option 3) You can use the expression pedal simultaneously for tap tempo and expression, and make a tap tempo setting based on the expression pedal pattern.
So if your Expression Pedal is regular in the last 4 beat you can assume that the user is entering the tempo and updated the tap tempo.

Let me know your thoughts.
Max

[tnijland]

I have done some thinking about it but cannot find a good alternative solution to implement the tap tempo. The most logical thing to do would be a switch that defines the tap tempo. However, as convenient as the pads are for switching, their dual or triple mode do not invite to create a tap tempo. I agree that the control pedal could be used but the fact that a pad is needed to activate that function makes it less intuitive.